Hi David! So glad we've connected and I really relate to what you've shared here. I will look for any and all ways to "busy" myself in a social setting with some kind of role so that I can survive the discomfort of unstructured group social interactions. Even when I joined SWAN, a social support group for autistic adults, as soon as I learned that the role of facilitator was about to become open, I volunteered myself so that I could hide behind what was familiar and comfortable for me. If I'm in any kind of leadership position (especially if I'm teaching or presenting information - aka info-dumping from the heart), I thrive. If I am left to figure things out on my own with people I don't know, I find the quietest corner and camp out there and wait for people to find me and start a conversation (or not).
Thank you, Becky. I too am glad we connected! Glad you are here.
Yes, I can relate for sure. Having been in post secondary education as an administrator and faculty member for over twenty years, I have had a very difficult time being "just" a participant. It's been really good for me to take a back seat and let others lead. It's helped me to better connect with why I feel so much anxiety in those situations when I'm not in the lead (perceived control).
I also have to say that yoga has been very helpful with this too. I'm definitely not a master yogi; my practice helps to keep me humble and open to being present to whatever is in the moment.
Hi David! I appreciate what you've shared here. Social awkwardness felt like a plague to me for a long time. Like you, when I know exactly what's expected, I can socially perform. It's often been hard for me to role-switch. For example, working with colleagues and then trying to be casually social at the same time. Actually, I typically used alcohol to get around this. In my twenties and early thirties, I drank heavily to keep me social. Since I've become sober, I've become more focused on spending time with a more intimate group of kindred spirits. Something I've noticed in more recent years is my inability, when not mindful, to differentiate between my feelings/sensations and those of the people around me. For example, yesterday my husband was hiccuping while he was also trying to talk. I noticed myself getting irritated with him, and then noticed I was holding my breath and feeling very tight in the chest as if I had the hiccups. As soon as I noticed, I relaxed, breathed normally, and the irritability dissipated. This is a benign example. Sometimes this challenge for me has turned into lasting anxiety and such that wasn't mine to begin with. I believe the mirroring I did for so long (to figure out how to behave acceptably and neurotically) turned into this misunderstanding between my own and others internal experiences. One technique I've been practicing for the past several months is self-checkins while in any kind of social situation. I am less talkative because of it as I periodically and regularly must pause to ask myself (internally) how I am feeling. Tuning in this way is making me more present in social situations and more capable of listening and hearing the other person. However, when I am talking, it's very hard for me to track myself and I tend to become ungrounded almost immediately. So, this is my area of focus lately - first learning to be quieter and more tuned into myself. Second, learning how to stay grounded while talking. This is why I'm most a writer and not a speaker. :) Thank you for your stories and for creating this space to share!
You offer some great examples and suggestions. I realized as I was reading your comment that I took mirror a lot. It's gotten me into trouble as I tend to "take on" the attitude and emotions of the other person.
This has created lots of conflicts in my marriage over the years. For example, my wife was having a conflict with an Airbnb host. She shared with me her anger and frustration. Instead of providing what she needed, I took on both her anger and my trying to understand the other person's position. This led me to act like a lawyer for the defendant instead of staying present to my wife. Suffice it to say, it ended up creating the opposite effect than intended. Now, my wife and I also had a conflict.
After reflecting on my actions, I realized that I always do something similar. Because I have difficulty processing emotions, communication, and understanding another person's perspective, I tend to "embody" them so I can get a better grasp on the situation.
This would be fine if I was an actor playing a character on stage. Unfortunately, it tends to not work in real life. It creates confusion and hurt feelings.
I love this post, David. (And thank you so much for the mention, I'm so pleased we connected here). I think it's an area that isn't really understood by people who don't experience feeling like this so I really appreciate your vulnerability here, your writing is so thoughtful.
I can relate to so much of what you've written about here and I also come from a similar background, having worked in learning and development. I can confidently run workshops and deliver training that is always received well but if you asked me to then go for drinks with those same people, I would really struggle. I think there's a lot around having learned the 'right' behaviours and having a sense of control that makes doing things in a work capacity easier but in a social capacity, the rules are often unknown!
I was also fascinated by your writing around Jyotish, I haven't heard of this before but it sounds so interesting, I'll definitely be delving into the resources you've shared, thank you so much for these :)
Thank you, Allie. You're welcome about the mention. I truly enjoy reading your posts and feel similar about Dopamine Diaries to what you've shared about my writing.
I agree that the topic of social awkwardness and communication challenges in general is very difficult for folks who don't experience it to relate or even understand. My wife who is neurotypical and I have these conversations a lot. It's really hard for her at times to get some of the nuanced challenges that both I and our children experience (both our daughter and son are neurodivergent as well).
I really truly believe that the work that you, and I and others are doing through our writing (and any other media format communicating) can be the key to help make a difference not only for us but for other neurodivergent people as well.
And, regarding Jyotish, I would recommend a great book, "Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India" by Hart de Fouw and Robert Svoboda. It's excellent! Also, I would recommend a Udemy course series entitled, "Learn Vedic Astrology" by Janet M. It's a 7-part course series. This course series is one of the most comprehensive English language courses that is reasonably priced. I highly recommend it. However, please be aware that Jyotish is very dense--there is a lot to it--and it can take a while to start putting all the pieces together. In other words, it's helped me cultivate more patience as I have wanted to know everything all at once. However, it takes time. I hope you enjoy exploring Jyotish. Let me know what you think if you do. Cheers!
I think what you’ve said here about communication challenges make so much sense and also made me think about communication even within the neurodivergent community as well and even with understanding, it can still present challenges. We think that my husband also has ADHD (he hasn’t been diagnosed but has a lot of traits and does have siblings who have been diagnosed) and even between us with the knowledge and understanding that we have, we sometimes struggle to communicate or understand why the other has said something a certain way. Which I suppose does make sense when we all experience ADHD or autism, or any neurodivergence, in different ways. It’s definitely an interesting point to discuss!
Thank you so much for the book recommendation, I will certainly be adding this to my reading list and will let you know how I get on!
And, I was just thinking how there are so many other things that can complicate communication (and social interaction) for those of us in the neurodivergent community.
How about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD)?
How about emotional dysregulation?
How about sensory dysregulation?
Just to name three things that many of us experience. I know for a fact that my style of communication changes based on whether I feel rejected, or emotionally/physically dysregulated.
And, to complicate things even more, a majority of us have experienced complex trauma (it's estimated that up to 85% or more of the ND community is a trauma survivor as well). How much of what we are experiencing is a reaction to trauma? And, as I wrote in one of my first articles, complex trauma is considered an acquired neurodivergence.
Hi David! So glad we've connected and I really relate to what you've shared here. I will look for any and all ways to "busy" myself in a social setting with some kind of role so that I can survive the discomfort of unstructured group social interactions. Even when I joined SWAN, a social support group for autistic adults, as soon as I learned that the role of facilitator was about to become open, I volunteered myself so that I could hide behind what was familiar and comfortable for me. If I'm in any kind of leadership position (especially if I'm teaching or presenting information - aka info-dumping from the heart), I thrive. If I am left to figure things out on my own with people I don't know, I find the quietest corner and camp out there and wait for people to find me and start a conversation (or not).
Thank you, Becky. I too am glad we connected! Glad you are here.
Yes, I can relate for sure. Having been in post secondary education as an administrator and faculty member for over twenty years, I have had a very difficult time being "just" a participant. It's been really good for me to take a back seat and let others lead. It's helped me to better connect with why I feel so much anxiety in those situations when I'm not in the lead (perceived control).
I also have to say that yoga has been very helpful with this too. I'm definitely not a master yogi; my practice helps to keep me humble and open to being present to whatever is in the moment.
Hi David! I appreciate what you've shared here. Social awkwardness felt like a plague to me for a long time. Like you, when I know exactly what's expected, I can socially perform. It's often been hard for me to role-switch. For example, working with colleagues and then trying to be casually social at the same time. Actually, I typically used alcohol to get around this. In my twenties and early thirties, I drank heavily to keep me social. Since I've become sober, I've become more focused on spending time with a more intimate group of kindred spirits. Something I've noticed in more recent years is my inability, when not mindful, to differentiate between my feelings/sensations and those of the people around me. For example, yesterday my husband was hiccuping while he was also trying to talk. I noticed myself getting irritated with him, and then noticed I was holding my breath and feeling very tight in the chest as if I had the hiccups. As soon as I noticed, I relaxed, breathed normally, and the irritability dissipated. This is a benign example. Sometimes this challenge for me has turned into lasting anxiety and such that wasn't mine to begin with. I believe the mirroring I did for so long (to figure out how to behave acceptably and neurotically) turned into this misunderstanding between my own and others internal experiences. One technique I've been practicing for the past several months is self-checkins while in any kind of social situation. I am less talkative because of it as I periodically and regularly must pause to ask myself (internally) how I am feeling. Tuning in this way is making me more present in social situations and more capable of listening and hearing the other person. However, when I am talking, it's very hard for me to track myself and I tend to become ungrounded almost immediately. So, this is my area of focus lately - first learning to be quieter and more tuned into myself. Second, learning how to stay grounded while talking. This is why I'm most a writer and not a speaker. :) Thank you for your stories and for creating this space to share!
Thank you, Rebekah, for sharing.
You offer some great examples and suggestions. I realized as I was reading your comment that I took mirror a lot. It's gotten me into trouble as I tend to "take on" the attitude and emotions of the other person.
This has created lots of conflicts in my marriage over the years. For example, my wife was having a conflict with an Airbnb host. She shared with me her anger and frustration. Instead of providing what she needed, I took on both her anger and my trying to understand the other person's position. This led me to act like a lawyer for the defendant instead of staying present to my wife. Suffice it to say, it ended up creating the opposite effect than intended. Now, my wife and I also had a conflict.
After reflecting on my actions, I realized that I always do something similar. Because I have difficulty processing emotions, communication, and understanding another person's perspective, I tend to "embody" them so I can get a better grasp on the situation.
This would be fine if I was an actor playing a character on stage. Unfortunately, it tends to not work in real life. It creates confusion and hurt feelings.
I love this post, David. (And thank you so much for the mention, I'm so pleased we connected here). I think it's an area that isn't really understood by people who don't experience feeling like this so I really appreciate your vulnerability here, your writing is so thoughtful.
I can relate to so much of what you've written about here and I also come from a similar background, having worked in learning and development. I can confidently run workshops and deliver training that is always received well but if you asked me to then go for drinks with those same people, I would really struggle. I think there's a lot around having learned the 'right' behaviours and having a sense of control that makes doing things in a work capacity easier but in a social capacity, the rules are often unknown!
I was also fascinated by your writing around Jyotish, I haven't heard of this before but it sounds so interesting, I'll definitely be delving into the resources you've shared, thank you so much for these :)
Thank you, Allie. You're welcome about the mention. I truly enjoy reading your posts and feel similar about Dopamine Diaries to what you've shared about my writing.
I agree that the topic of social awkwardness and communication challenges in general is very difficult for folks who don't experience it to relate or even understand. My wife who is neurotypical and I have these conversations a lot. It's really hard for her at times to get some of the nuanced challenges that both I and our children experience (both our daughter and son are neurodivergent as well).
I really truly believe that the work that you, and I and others are doing through our writing (and any other media format communicating) can be the key to help make a difference not only for us but for other neurodivergent people as well.
And, regarding Jyotish, I would recommend a great book, "Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India" by Hart de Fouw and Robert Svoboda. It's excellent! Also, I would recommend a Udemy course series entitled, "Learn Vedic Astrology" by Janet M. It's a 7-part course series. This course series is one of the most comprehensive English language courses that is reasonably priced. I highly recommend it. However, please be aware that Jyotish is very dense--there is a lot to it--and it can take a while to start putting all the pieces together. In other words, it's helped me cultivate more patience as I have wanted to know everything all at once. However, it takes time. I hope you enjoy exploring Jyotish. Let me know what you think if you do. Cheers!
I think what you’ve said here about communication challenges make so much sense and also made me think about communication even within the neurodivergent community as well and even with understanding, it can still present challenges. We think that my husband also has ADHD (he hasn’t been diagnosed but has a lot of traits and does have siblings who have been diagnosed) and even between us with the knowledge and understanding that we have, we sometimes struggle to communicate or understand why the other has said something a certain way. Which I suppose does make sense when we all experience ADHD or autism, or any neurodivergence, in different ways. It’s definitely an interesting point to discuss!
Thank you so much for the book recommendation, I will certainly be adding this to my reading list and will let you know how I get on!
And, I was just thinking how there are so many other things that can complicate communication (and social interaction) for those of us in the neurodivergent community.
How about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD)?
How about emotional dysregulation?
How about sensory dysregulation?
Just to name three things that many of us experience. I know for a fact that my style of communication changes based on whether I feel rejected, or emotionally/physically dysregulated.
And, to complicate things even more, a majority of us have experienced complex trauma (it's estimated that up to 85% or more of the ND community is a trauma survivor as well). How much of what we are experiencing is a reaction to trauma? And, as I wrote in one of my first articles, complex trauma is considered an acquired neurodivergence.